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Mormon Transhumanists: Lincoln Cannon

More on the Simulation Argument and Synthetic Worlds without End

The Simulation Argument has been getting a lot of attention since being referenced by the New York Times.
 
Writing for the Daily Galaxy, Rebecca Sato asks, could our lives be a cosmic computer simulation? She concludes with these words:

". . . our designer might be another virtual being living inside the computer of a still more advanced form of intelligence. There could be layer upon layer of simulations. In a sense, the multi-universe theory of physics would be true, with just a little twist: we are both the future creators and the offspring of these multiple realities where anything is possible."

These observations sound a lot like other observations made nearly 2000 years ago by the apostle Paul, who claimed that we are the offspring of a God (Acts 17), and over 150 years ago by Joseph Smith, who taught of worlds without end created by persons, beginning as children of God, who learned and progressed to Godhood.

Writing for IEET, George Dvorsky describes what he sees as the dark side of the Simulation Argument. On the one hand, if we're not in a simulation, our future is almost certainly limited. Advanced civilizations might not survive their Technological Singularities, or the upper end of their technological advance eventually tapers off to finality. On the other hand, if we are in a simulation, our simulators have substantial power over us, yet have apparently chosen not to eliminate the suffering around us. George concludes that if we're in a simulation then we should take up a Gnostic religious sensibility.
 
I agree with at least part of George's reasoning. If we're not in a simulation then our future is almost certainly far more limited than I would like it to be. However, I may disagree with the idea that we need to take up Gnosticism if we're going to be able to proceed with faith that our future is not so limited.
 
Mormonism offers a view of the future that is neither Gnostic (in any escapist sense) nor technologically terminal. It posits a God that is compassionate and powerful, yet progressing. The God of Mormonism emerged and found himself in a world that he did not create. He progressed in power such that he could organize and reorganize the world in ways that would facilitate others' progress toward becoming like him. However, as depicted in Mormon canon, he looks from heaven and weeps because we will not love each other (Moses 7). Whatever the limitations of our progressing God, they are such that we must participate with him in overcoming misery and pain -- hell and death -- if we are to become like him. Presumably, he knows of no other way. From a Mormon perspective, our life is an opportunity to learn and gain experience; and whatever knowledge we gain in this life will give us advantage in the life to come.
 
Visiting the idea of Gnosticism again, I'll add that whether we should take up Gnosticism might depend on what we mean by it. Some who have studied the writings of Paul in the New Testament have argued that he was a Gnostic. If we agree that he was then I will fully agree with George's reasoning: if we are living in a Simulation then we should have an attitude like that of Paul. Paul's Gnosticism is not escapist. This world remains real, although not so glorious as our future. Our experience remains important, and our compassion for each other's experience is central to a meaningful life. I feel deeply Paul's call to take on the identity of Christ, and participate in the atonement -- "fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church" (Colossians 1). I identify as a Christian because of Paul; speaking from the dead, he converted me . . .
 
. . . to the Simulation Hypothesis of the Simulation Argument before I had ever heard of it.

Romans 8
  10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
  11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
  12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
  13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
  14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
  15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
  16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
  17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
  18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
  19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
  20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
  21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
  22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
  23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Finally, for your viewing pleasure, here is a video that explains how the Simulation Argument has made it difficult to argue against the existence of a natural intelligent designer -- God, as understood from a Mormon perspective.

Published Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:25 PM by Lincoln Cannon

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Jonathan Blake said:

If we take it as given that we exist in a simulation, we would indeed have a god/simulator, but that doesn't imply all of the characteristics that we've attributed to our gods through the millenia. The ability to simulate a world doesn't require that the simulator love the simulated beings, for example. I don't know that this argument really helps traditional religions much.
August 17, 2007 3:28 PM
 

Lincoln Cannon said:

Hi Jonathan.

Thanks for commenting. Here are some interesting thoughts from Nick Bostrom, the author of the Simulation Argument, on its ethical implications for simulators:

"Further rumination on these themes could climax in a naturalistic theogony that would study the structure of this hierarchy, and the constraints imposed on its inhabitants by the possibility that their actions on their own level may affect the treatment they receive from dwellers of deeper levels. For example, if nobody can be sure that they are at the basement-level, then everybody would have to consider the possibility that their actions will be rewarded or punished, based perhaps on moral criteria, by their simulators. An afterlife would be a real possibility. Because of this fundamental uncertainty, even the basement civilization may have a reason to behave ethically. The fact that it has such a reason for moral behavior would of course add to everybody else’s reason for behaving morally, and so on, in truly virtuous circle. One might get a kind of universal ethical imperative, which it would be in everybody’s self-interest to obey, as it were 'from nowhere'."
August 17, 2007 4:18 PM
 

Jonathan Blake said:

That quote displays a rather shallow thought process colored by our traditional thoughts about supreme beings. For example, why assume that our simulator will reward ethical behavior? I see no valid reason to do so.

Another assumption is that our simulator knows and cares that we're here. We're an exceedingly small phenomenon on a small planet in one corner of an unimaginably large universe (or so it seems). It's just as likely that our simulator is more interested in some other part of the universe.

I still see no good reason to shoehorn the idea of a simulator into our ideas about deity.
August 17, 2007 11:33 PM
 

Lincoln Cannon said:

Jonathan,

In his reasoning, Nick is not assuming that simulators will reward ethical behavior. Rather, he is concluding that persons who are almost certain that they are simulatees should consider the possibility that their simulators will reward and punish various behaviors. He is also concluding that simulatees' uncertainty in that regard may encourage them to behave according to their best estimation of the interests of their simulators. These conclusions are based on assumptions such as the actuality of recursively embedded synthetic worlds, continuing self-interest among highly advanced persons, and highly advanced persons could successfully identify their simulators' interests with at least some degree of accuracy.

The last assumption, of course, is particularly interesting to think about. As you point out, it's difficult to say what the interests of our simulators might be. After all, if we have simulators then they are, by definition, incomprehensibly more intelligent than we are. However, the apparent fine-tuning of physical laws suggests that if we have simulators then their interests are congruent with our interests, at least to some meaningful extent. Because of those laws, we are here, our biological brains have enough capacity to create computers, and computing power is trending toward levels theoretically sufficient for the creation of synthetic worlds within the current century. It seems we could say that we need no proof that our simulators are interested in us because it appears that they are interested in that which is congruent with our ability to become like them.

What do you think?

By the way, noticing that you've concluded your two posts with comments implying skepticism about apologetics for traditional views of God and religion, I'd like to point out that I'm not primarily interested in apologetics. My purpose, here, is quite aligned with the purpose of the MTA, which is to promote practical faith in human exaltation. I see value in traditional views of God and religion because they inspire many of us, and are deeply influencing our thoughts and actions as we approach the future. However, I also see value in improving our understanding as we gain further light and knowledge, to steal a phrase from Joseph Smith. As I see it, God is posited, not proven, except within the context of a position. Faith in God is to discover and join God to the extent she already exists, and to create and become God to the extent she does not yet exist. Whether this faith leads to more discovery or more creation depends on our current understanding of God.
August 18, 2007 10:53 AM
 

Lincoln Cannon said:

One more thought comes to mind.

As we have progressed technologically, our relationship with our technology has become increasingly intimate. Computers that were once far away in warehouses are now in our pockets, or even embedded in our flesh. Whereas we originally used them to crunch numbers, we now use them to bring us together in ways never before possible.

I anticipate that this trend will continue, and fully expect that we will one day become indistinguishable from our technology. Our future selves will relate with our technology not as we now relate to the boxed computers on our desks, but more like the simulations that are constantly running in our minds.

It is these most intimate of simulations that are having the deepest effects on our being. If we are simulating anger and hate, resentment or guilt, these simulations are informing our feelings, words and actions in negative ways. On the other hand, when we forgive and love, and move forward with faith and confidence in the future, it shifts our entire being and others rightly speak of seeing a light in our countenances.

If our relatively slow brains have such deep impact on our being, I can only assume our enhanced future brains will impact our being, in all of its colors and shapes, much more profoundly and broadly. As I have experienced the negative consequences of depressed and anxious simulations in my mind, I've learned that I should take ownership of these thoughts, and so become more empowered over my feelings and being. So I feel grateful for the lesson, as I intuit its importance for my future . . . and perhaps simulators' futures generally -- no proof for now, but certainly an abiding feeling.
August 18, 2007 2:30 PM
 

Jonathan Blake said:

I keep what you said regarding apologetics in mind. Perhaps my experiences elsewhere have made me a bit quick on the trigger.

I'm not convinced that the primary purpose of our universe is the development of intelligent life. The thin veneer of biological froth on an astronomical backwater doesn't seem to take center stage in this simulation. The extremely precise parameters necessary to create life as we know it can be explained by the Anthropic principle rather than the simulators interest in us. We wouldn't be having this discussion if the universe were inconducive to intelligent, carbon-based life.

Beyond that, this universe seems too extravagant to be for the sole purpose of creating us. Unimaginably vast tracts of the universe are wasted on us. The simulator could have surely simulated us with a much smaller universe.

Living in a simulation where the simulator doesn't notice our existence would explain a lot.
August 20, 2007 10:00 AM
 

Lincoln Cannon said:

I agree that, assuming we are in a synthetic world, there could be many other purposes for it. For example, perhaps the simulators are trying to gather data that will help them avoid existential risks in their world. In any case, my point is only that the purpose of our world is, evidently, at least remarkably congruent with our interests, which leads to your next point . . .

I agree that the anthropic principle is important to consider as part of this question. However, the anthropic principle does not seem to respond to the fine-tuning problem without appealing further to a multiverse, which itself seems to increase the probability that we are living in a synthetic world, which in turn decreases the probability that the congruence of our world with our interests is merely a matter of chance.

With your last statement, are you referring to the problem of evil?
August 20, 2007 6:07 PM
 

Jonathan Blake said:

You have a point about the multiverse making it more likely that a fine-tuned-for-intelligent-life universe is no accident.

My last statement was partially referring to the problem of evil, but mostly just the absence of the apparent presence of a creator. If we have a simulator, they seem to be following the Prime Directive.
August 21, 2007 6:57 PM
 

Lincoln Cannon said:

Yes. If we are living in a synthetic world, our creator may be following something like the Prime Directive from Star Trek -- a policy of general non-interference.

There are, however, other possibilities. For example, perhaps we are generally too unintelligent (or otherwise lacking) to observe our creator? For example, if the simulator and the simulation are indistinguishable (the person and the technology have fully merged) then we are actually living IN our creator, and therefore seeing the simulator ALWAYS, whether we recognize it or not. This would give some interesting meaning to scriptures such as the following:

D&C 88
 41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.
 42 And again, verily I say unto you, he hath given a law unto all things, by which they move in their times and their seasons;
 43 And their courses are fixed, even the courses of the heavens and the earth, which comprehend the earth and all the planets.
 44 And they give light to each other in their times and in their seasons, in their minutes, in their hours, in their days, in their weeks, in their months, in their years—all these are one year with God, but not with man.
 45 The earth rolls upon her wings, and the sun giveth his light by day, and the moon giveth her light by night, and the stars also give their light, as they roll upon their wings in their glory, in the midst of the power of God.
 46 Unto what shall I liken these kingdoms, that ye may understand?
 47 Behold, all these are kingdoms, and any man who hath seen any or the least of these hath seen God moving in his majesty and power.
 48 I say unto you, he hath seen him; nevertheless, he who came unto his own was not comprehended.
 49 The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall comprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him.
 50 Then shall ye know that ye have seen me, that I am, and that I am the true light that is in you, and that you are in me; otherwise ye could not abound.
August 21, 2007 8:16 PM
 

Jonathan Blake said:

You suddenly sound very much like the mystics that I know. D&C 88 is one of their favorite scriptures, and what you describe is tantamount to panentheism, also a favorite. I've never thought of panentheism in quite that way, though.

One of these days I'll post on my blog about what atheism means for me. My atheism isn't necessarily opposed to a deist, pantheist, or panentheist concept of God.

On the fine-tuning idea, I had a thought this morning. Perhaps our simulator is really interested in bacteria. Perhaps they are a micro-biologist who is only interested in us as hosts for bacterial and viral life. We're lab rats, in other words. The recurrent mass extinctions could be a way for the simulator to make way for new species of hosts.
August 22, 2007 10:31 AM
 

rocket scientist said:

Check this video and the book of Dr. Michio Kaku

Video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=OLUUCeAqOxs&mode=related&search=

Book on parallel universes:
"Parallel Worlds"
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400033721/mkaku-20

August 23, 2007 3:38 PM
 

rocket scientist said:

An interesting view related to this subject is presented by Paul Davis at Beyond Belief 2006 Conference. To watch it, go to http://beyondbelief2006.org/, then check Monday, November 6, 2006 Session 5.

BTW, some other presentations could also give food for thoughts as well. Enjoy :)
August 27, 2007 9:16 AM
 

Mormon Transhumanists: Lincoln Cannon said:

I've blogged time and again about the Simulation Argument, formulated by Oxford philosopher Nick Bostrom....
April 22, 2008 7:37 PM

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About Lincoln Cannon

Lincoln is a founding member, director and president of the Mormon Transhumanist Association. He has thirteen years of professional experience in information technology, working primarily for companies in the systems management industry, such as Symantec and Novell. He holds a masters degree in business administration and a bachelors degree in philosophy from Brigham Young University. Lincoln served a mission to France for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is married with Dorothée Vankrieckenge, a French national, and is father to three bilingual children.

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